Rich: Lets start from the beginnning, we may interupt you with specific questions or whatever but, you want to start with how you met Peterson? You met Peterson first right? Vern: Well, theres probably a lot of stuff that shouldnt be on there to. Rich: Dave is recording and transcribing onto paper, like I told you before and I'll say again nothing is published until you approve it. When we send you the transcript I'' sed you the yellow marker with and whatever you mark is not in, do nt worry about that not its a confidential converstion so nothing hit the internet until its approived by you. Bit now you got my curiousty up you have to give us some of the good shit to. Vern: His recruiting office wasnt exactly the best place in the world. I dont know where do you want to start? Rich: You met Peterson before George right? Vern: Oh Yes. Rich: You met in racing Vern: Yes, basically he hung out at race tracks, the local race tracks and stuff, he wasnt into stock cars he was basically into sprint cars and midgets and Indy cars Rich: This is in the Chicago area? Vern: Yes, and he was very good engineer, a lot of people didnt realize it, he'd come to the local tracks and hang out, thats were he'd recruit a lot of his help, so most of the people working there had racing backgrounds. Dave: As far as racing background your talking about working on the engines? Vern: Working on the cars completely, small track racers they built there cars, they raced they cars and a lot would go to him for advise on chassis and how to make them handle better and stuff. Rich: Was he physically making his living doing this at the time? Vern: Yes over on Harlem ave. and from what I under stood from what George told me, he went to Peterson and told Pete I want a limousine that stands out from everyone else's, this is the initial first limousine and Pete told him (George wanted a Lincoln) well I guess we could cut it in half and strtech it. Dave: Peterson said that? Vern: Yes, George went to the hockey games, he a real big Black Hawk fans and so he wanted to impress his friends at the hocky game basically. and so they stretched the first car, natually it hit the newspapers in Chicago and thats when Ford got hold of them and to the best of my knowledge they didnt take Georges car they built a second car for Ford. Dave: And that would be a 1963? Vern: Yes, and thats the one that Ford tested, George basicaly had his car and wasnt about to give it up because everybody hust loved it, then they got into the contract with Ford Dave: On these 63's did they have the whole rear seat and the bar console with vynly top? Vern: They didnt have the bar, they had the concole and the vynly top, it was identical to Georges but it didnt have the bar in it. Dave: When the did these, did they subcontract other people out for upholtstry work or is this all stuff that Peterson did? Vern: Peteson knew people in the business, he knew upholers, he knew everybody thats why George made the connection, when George went around asking who could do something like that, more than one person pointed to Peterson Dave: So the first 1963 was Lehmann's and the second went to Detroit Vern: Yes, they were buit on Harlem ave in Petes racing shop Dave: Did Detroit hava any idea that oine was coming or they were working on it Vern: No, I wasnt with them at that time so all I can go on is what Pete told me. Rich: Do you think ford approache them it wasnt the other weay aroiund Vern: Ford approached them Rich: Do you know what color Georges first car was, was it black? Vern: No it was maroon I believe Rich: So then they take the car they test it, they make the contract.. Vern: The one that they test ford provided them with a car, and they did the strtceh Dave: From what I read it was a 1964 that they took over there, so this was earlier that then? Vern: Yes, Georges car was a 1963 Rich: When did you join the crew? Vern: I joined the crew in 1965 Rich: 1964 was a short year so they werent really up at their stride until you got there, right? Vern: Yes they were on Sawyer ave. Rich: How did that work out where you joined them? Vern: When I joined them, Pete would stop at a bar every night, and thats where I run into him. Me and some off the others guys I raced with about once a week we'd stop at this bar on Armitage Ave. and had a few drinks together and talk about racing, what we were going to do that weekend, Pete had a habit of stopping there to, he said to me, why don't you come to work for us, and at the time I was working as a mechanic, he told me we need some help in the body shop. I said Pete I dont do body work, I'm a mechanic, he said we'll train you. So I came to work there, they had a Bohemian fellow named Ed Cozy who you couldn't be trained by a better guy, I mean this guy could do anything with a piece of metal, he was like a turk pot maker, he could shrink it, he could stretch it, I don't care what they ask him to do, he could do it and do it well. So he trained me and I got into the metal work, I had the electical and mechanical background plus I was able to do the metal work. So when the special projects came along well I got pulled out of the pool to work on those. Myself and fellow named Rick Like (???) Dave: Now special projects you mean other than limousines? Vern: Yes Rich: Also custom limousines like Nixon and what not right? Vern: Yes, like the popemobliel , I forget whose car that was but it was a regular stretch that we re-did Dave: How true is this story, I heard the poepmobile was actually one that Ford wrecked and they brought it back and Peterson said lets turn that into a popemoble Vern: They didnt wreck the car, they took the car and evaluated it, they were doing engineering They took it up there they engineeed it, all there engieers got in took it all apart and made some improvments in the electrical systems and stuff, that was a couple years after Ford came on board The car would sit back in the corner of the building, it was never a wrecked car. Dave: OK Rich: With Peterson, how does he handle that kind of critisism, does he handle it well if someone bulds a bettere mosue trap he could handle and work with it. Vern: Yes he worked with them with no problem Rich: He was just a low profiel guy wasnt he? Vern: Yes very low profile, he never made waves, he got along with everybody, whether it be the people from Ford ore Secret Service people, everybody like Pete, he worked with them instead of against them He was an asset for George, a real assett Rich: How was George as a person? Vern: George just like the glory, other than that he stayed away. Dave: He stayed out of the shop pretty much then? Vern: Yes Dave: He was the salesman, the businessman? Vern: Right, he would come in the manufacturing facility and you might see him for a couple of hours and he was gone, where Peterson was there all the time. Yep, Pete would come in about 9 in the morning maybe that where I got this habit myself and leave about 6, never in a hurry to get out of there. Dave: So back to the 1963, the second 63 went to Ford for approval and then every year after that they would send one over for evaluation? Vern: No, to the best of my knowledge the one time, the system were pretty much the same from that point on, the outside of the car design would change but the mechanic wouldn't Rich: It is true that Ford gave you all the base units for free? Vern: No, not at all, the deal with Ford was, George bought the units, we stretch the unit. the Ford dealers were selling the units. Lincoln-Mercury dealers were selling the units. Dave: I thought I read in an article where if you bought 2 Linncoln Sedans they threw in a 3rd one, it that true Vern: Not to my knowledge Rich: Could people buy direct from your factory Vern: Well thats what one of the problems that came in with Ford I think. But now every car that was manufactured. yea let me go back, you could buy direct, but every car that was manufactured went back to Detroit for a final inspection before it got delivered. Dave: Oh it didnt go right to the dealership? Vern: No, they went back to Detroit Rich: Do you drive them or truck them Vern: They truck them, a truck would come in and drop units and take the finished units back. Dave: Oh I wasnt aware of that, i thought they went to the dealership Vern: No Rich: If there was a problem with the car did they fix it or did it go back to you. Vern: Basically if it was minor they fixed it Rich: For the most paret everything that rolled out of there was up and up good right. Vern: Yes, truthfully in Detroit what they were looking for was they just wanted to make sure that the frames were all welded right, theyd put them in the air and do a visual inspection, make sure the brake lines were all good and everything, they we just protecting there name Rich: Sure, Sure Vern: Because their dealers were selling them. Thats something that isnt done anymore, any nook and cranny can build a stretch car anymore Rich: And they do. Vern: Yes Dave: On the first 1963's did Peterson do a lot of work Vern: Yes he was hands on Dave: Were there any hired on workers then to help with those first couple of 63's Vern: He had a couple of guys that worked for him and they were the ones who basically built the car. Dave: When someone would order one I've heard the car would come from Wixom with a limousine kit which would include an extra air-conditioner, are you aware of a kit? Vern: No thats not true, we made the kit, we did all the air-conditioning in house, we had our own condensors made, evaporators, that stuff was ordered from manufactures, special order, now we dealt with the same people that Ford dealt with. The drive shafts were made by Saginaw, yes everything was custom made and it was done by Lehmann-Peterson Rich: Did you use a guy in Chicago Hank at F&G Welding for drive shafts? Vern: That was basicaly on the first couple of cars. Rich: You know he was doing drive shafts until he died, he was around here forever. I know he was doing driveshafts when Diamond was building here and a lot of the Moloneys and kind of stuff. Dave: As far as the strtech section I was told that was a second front store that was modified Vern: No it was a stock door, stock rear door, 4 door car. Rich: He misunderstood you dave Dave: The stretch section, the 34 inch strecth Vern: It was a door panel, outer door skin, and we made all the support work and everything, but it was a factory skin Yes. Dave: I can see where I lot of articles I've read are not correct. Rich: If you were in business today those center skins you'd stamp them out yourself right Vern: Thats what we did when I went to work for Moloney, we started making them. Rich: Lets jump to the Nixon thing for a minute, did the secret service just show up one day? Vern: No that was through Ford, Yes, your talking about the presidential limousine Rich: Right Vern: Yes, that car was basically built for Johnson, but it took so long to build it because Ford kept changing everything, their engineers kept changing everything. Rich: Is it true that Johnson just didnt like riding in the Kennedy car, was that it or was his car was getting old? Vern: The car was old and they wanted to retire the car anyhow, but uh, that car was for Johnson but by the time it was finished Nixon was in office. Dave: So directly after the Kennedy assassination is when they approached Lehmann-Peterson? Vern: Right Dave: So were talking very early 1964 or so. Vern: Yes Rich: You know that design is almost identical to all your other cars, did they want it different, did you guys have any say so into how it would look? Vern: No, that was all done by Ford engineering Rich: Yes they kept to the design of the car pretty much. Vern: I've got a picture of that car, not of them standing in front of the white house but its kind of a view from above at an angle, have you guys seen a a copy of that picture Dave: It might be on my site, theres couple overhead shots of the glass top? Vern: Its like a skylight Dave: Yes Rich: Was that the first armored car you ever made? Vern: Yes, back then when they did an armor car you made all the metal pieces then they went back to a heat treating plant and they were heat treated, they you brought them back and after they were hardened then you'd put them into the car and you couldnt weld them, they had to be bolted in, if the holes were off you were in big trouble cause you could not drill a hole in that stuff, so you had to make another piece all over again, and thats why it took 2 years to build that car Dave: And the whole under carriage is probably armored to then. Vern: They used a softer steal underneath so if somebody threw a grenade under the car the steal would expand rather than shatter, but the side and top were all hard armor, then the glass was 1 1/4 inch thick with a coating of lexsand(???) on the inside so that the glass shattering would not come into the compartment. We had to put springs and hand levers on the regulator to get the windows to go up and down. But the car was so air tight that you could not hear the people on the outside talking, so we had microphones in the mirrors on the outside, so they secret servic ecould hear what they were saying. Rich: Why was the front compartment never armor plated on that car? Vern: Thats a good question but all they wanted the cubicle to protect the president, secret service men were expendable, that was very interesting, we could never figure it out either Rich: The 2 followup cars were they built at the same time or afterward Vern: They were done at the same time, they werent aromor plated at all, they just had some trick stuff on them like the handle that jumped up out of the deck lid and the running boards and the rear bumper folded down and that was a running board. Rich: You guys invented that didnt you, with the pop up handles and the flip down rear bumper? Vern: Well it was another thing where Ford and the Secret Service said this is what we need, here make it for us. so it went, Peterson would design it and we'd build it. Rich: What powered the bumper coming down and up? Vern: It was just a latch release, no power, they slammed it down and they slammed it back up when they were done. But the handle was power it had hydraulic cylinders. Rich: And you could still open the trunk on that car? Vern: Yes, the trunk was usable, the driver would push a button and the handle would come up and the rear bumper would fall down. Rich: I never see that pictures of the at car with runing boards, but it did have running boards didnt it? Vern: Yes, it sure did so they could stand on the sides Rich: When did the special projects division start, how did that come about? Vern: I remember us doing a 4-door Lincoln Mark V, I beleive it was, for Ford himdelf. We used Thunderbird doors at that time the Thunderbird was a 4 door car, I beleieve that was in 1968 somewhere around there. Dave: There were other cars you worked on besides the Lincolns though, right? Vern: No, it was strickly a Lincoln shop, what di you hear? Dave: Theres a Mercury Park Lane thats in question whether it was a Lehmann-Peterson, a 1965 I beleive Vern: Ok, yes there were some Mercurys, yes, Ford products only came through the door. We did a couple of Mercury stationwagon ambulances that hold 4 litter, you vould put 4 people in them, at the time you could only put 1 person in an amubluance, so Ford was looking at making a ambuylance that would hold more than 1 person Dave: And that was Peterson who cam up with that. Vern: Yes, Peterson cam up with the raised roof design on that and room for 4 stretchers. We worked on a high speed fire truck for the airport, they wanted a small fire truck that could get out to the fire that would do about 100 MPH. Rich: With a tank of water? Vern: And foam Rich: They had foam back then Vern: Yes Dave: That was for Ohare? Vern: It was for Ford, they liked to make toys, to make stuff to play with and Lehmann-Peterson was the perfect place to have this stuff done. Rich: Did Henry Ford ever visit you guys? Vern: Not to my knowledge Rich: So you never made any Mercury limousines then? Vern: No Rich: You owe me lunch Dave! Theres this big controversy over these Mercurys that I think Andy Hotton build Did you ever meet Andy Hotton Vern? Vern: Yes, Rich: He visited the shop? Vern: I did a lot of business with Andy later on, yes he would come down to the shop a few times Rich: Now he was Henry Fords buddy right? Vern: Yes, he had a facility, he started doing stuff up there and he started getting some of the candy. He's the one tat made the stretch limousine with the big doors Dave: Right, the long back doors Rich: On those Mercurys in question that we got from Ford archives, they have squared off doors and that was my first clue they were not Lehmann-Petersons Vern: Yea, they were probably Andy Hotton Rich: A lot of big magazines claim the are Lehmann-Petersons but I don't by it. What about Ford 500's they ran some limos through the auto shows in the mid 60's, did you do any Ford 500's Vern: No Rich: They got to be Andy Hottons then Vern: Yea Rich: You met up with Andy Hotton after the Lehmann-Peterson days? Vern: Yes, when I was working with Moloney, thats when I basically got to meet up with him, we started ordering some moldings and stuff from him. It was just cheaper and easier Dave: Did Peterson know Hotton, were they friend or anything, they probably looked at each other as competetors Vern: Competetors yes, specially the stuff from Ford, fill(???) cars and stuff. Rich: When Ford eventually (were getting ahead of ourselfs) cut the contract with Lehmann-Peterson do you think Andy Hotton may have been one of the reasons? Vern: Yea, difinitely Dave: It wasnt because of the design change? They built the 1970 which didnt have the suicide doors. Vern: No. Rich: Teh Lehmann-Peterson 1970 the normal car door was just as good as anything out there Vern: Oh it had a trick door, Peterson redesigned the door hinges we made door hinges so as you opened the door, the door would come up so you would clear curbs, were you aware of that? Dave: No Rich: No Vern: Oh yea the door would rise 3 inches. Dave: On the 1970 your talking Vern: I beleive we started doing that in 1969 Dave: Oh really, so the 1969 suicide rear door would actually lift up as you... Vern: Yea, and then when the 1970 came out he (Peterson) had to redesign it all over again because it was a totally different design you know. Rich: Wasnt the 1970 though once all the engineering was done and easier car to stretch on a mass production basis though. Vern: No, actually it started in 1968 didnt 68 come out with the frame again, up until then it was unibody Rich: Dave, thats a question you would know right. Dave: I thought they were all unibody all the suicide Vern: No, I beleive it was 1968 that Lincoln came out with the full frame again. Dave: I've got a Lincoln budddy that would know that. Vern: It was 68 or 69 because we had to do all retooling on our rack and stuff we cut them on, then of course to weld the frame you had to cut sections out of the body so that the frame was exsposed so you could weld the section in and strap it and wrap it. 68 seems to ring a bell to me that thens when they came out with the frame. Rich: When when do you think Lehmann-Peterson actually got up and running, in 1964 is when they started really.. Vern: 64, yea is when they got running Rich: That was not a very big production year then was it, I heard there were very few 1964's made Vern: Yea, Dave: Probably 20 or so. Vern: I would tend to say it was 20 or 30 right in that area. Dave: But by that time everybody had the whole system down as to what needed to be done and there was full crew, how many people were in the shop working. Vern: Right. The vehicles were made in stages, the car would come in and the upholstry department would strip it take the interior out, then it would go into next stage where it would get cut and stretched, and then it wen into next stage where the center panels and roof was done and the body work, and then it would go into paint. After paint it would come out and go back to the upholstry shop where the mechanical was done also, and over there tey would put in the drive shafts and air conditioning and all that stuff, stretech the electrical system, stretch the wires and stuff. and then the upholstry would be put back in it. Dave: Would be the same people folowing this car through this whole process or would it be.. Vern: No Dave: An assembly line process Vern: That one thing that you did. Its repetiton you know doing the same thing over and over you get better and better at doing it. Dave: Right Vern: Which was one of Petersons ideas how to build a quality vehicle. Rich: When you on Sawyer, and I've been over there, now I was a little confused the actual address is now the Aldermans office but in the back is obviously you could tell they used to be a building there its surrounded by apartments in an alley right. Vern: That was on Armitage Rich: But it started on Sawyer no Vern: Sawyer was a different location, Sawyer was just a small shop and on Armitage we had 2 buildings one on each side of the ally Rich: Yea thats torn down, I passed by there a few months ago and thats a condo now Vern: OK Rich: You know its funny on Armitage Ave on one side of the street you need 600 thousand to buy a condo and on the other side you need a flat jacket not to shot. Its a very strange neighborhood right now Vern: In transition Rich: Yea, I though Sawyer was the main headquarters in where everything you know... because it was so small I could never understand based on the pictures of the production we could see how something could be done Vern: No it was very small, I came on when they moved to Armitage, I wasnt at the Sawyer Dave: So thats in 1965 you said Vern: Yea, the Sawyer facility was far to small, that where they did the 20 cars or 30 cars Dave: For 1964 your talking Vern: Yes, and they knew that facility was very inadiquite and they started looking for something bigger and the only thing they could find were these 2 garages that were across an ally from each other Rich: Did all you guys live in that area is that why you stayed in that area Vern: Yea, basicaly Dave: For the special item like the bar console was all that built there or was that subcontracted Vern: Well there was a wood worker who made the console, all he made was the wood work though and the was very little wood work in those basicly it was sheet metal covered with vynly screwed on to the sides which made the sides up, I think some of the early ones even the top was vinyl. Dave: As far as the little juumper seats was that all made there Vern: Maufactured in house Dave: It was all done there too Vern: Yes Dave: One article I read was Lehmann-Peterson has a whole ware house of parts ready to go into the cars almost like an inventory or were they built as they were needed Vern: We didnt keep an inventory, the cars were dropped shipped as they were ordered, the dealers would order a car and the factory would build the limousine chassis which was a heavey duty chassis, the unit would be dropped shipped we would stretch it, they unit would go back to the factory (Ford) for a final inspection and put on a truck and routed to the dealership. If we build a car for an individual that car would still go back to Detroit and then it would get dropped shipped to the nearest dealer to that person. Dave: To the dealer that ordered it Vern: If it wasnt ordered from a dealer it would still be drop shipped at a Lincoln dealer closeest to your address and you would pick it up there. Peopel never came and got them at the factory Rich: Do you ever recall building a car for Frank Sinatra? Vern: Basicay they kep everything secret up front asa to who the cars was being made for. They didnt let us in on that, we were just building another limousine. Dave: For instance Jackie Gleason, you didnt know that was for him? Vern: Yea, that one got out Dave: You knew about that. Vern: We knew about that, and Liberace's too. Dave: Theres a 1966 thats in question because it has the 67 little space behind the front door, did you ever get any cars back to the shop for updating? Vern: I only recal one the whole time I worked there. Dave: That somebody wanted a few new updates for the later year. Vern: Updates and change the color of the interior Dave: Was it a gold plated car Vern: It may have been. I worked basicly in the east side building where the upholstry shops and mechanical shops were on the west side building and all that kind of stuff was done in there building, unless there was brackets that had to be welding in and stuff then it would come over across the alley Dave: This car is a 1966 but has the small 8 inch vinyl as part of the middle window just behind the driver door on each side, that came out in 1967. Rich: Its it called a sail panel or something? Vern: Well now there might have been 1 or 2 done in 1966 Dave: And this car is gold plated also. Vern: At the end of 1966 we migh have done a couple, cause the glass had to be made for it. It would be a different glass. That was the other thing, your talking with somebody about working there they ask well how'd they put them center windows in. They were screwed in, they were stationary and screww in, we put the stock weather strip all around then there were 2 little eyelets that were welded on the glass frame and we screwed them in, and the rubber then covered that so you couldnt see them. And anybody that worked there knew that and anybody who says they worked there and did'nt wouldnt know that. Dave: I used to own a 1964 back when I was 20 years old, and it had a Senate parking sticker on the it. Do you know if any of the 64's ever went to Washington, this one supposedly belonged to Humphrey. Vern: Like I say all that information was kept up front, George was very scretive about all the stuff I swear he was an FBI agent Rich: Did the Secret Service have to give you guys clearance to work on that (Nixons) car? Vern: Yes we had White House clearance. Rich: No shit, thats cool. Vern: The 5 of us, we actually built the car in the spray booth Rich: Really Dave: So nobody could see it Vern: Except for those who had clearance Dave: There was a Cornation Coupe I think a 1968 the was specialy done. Do you recal anything about that Rich: Who were the 2 guy in the picture with that Dave, Merv something? , its on the site Doe that ring a bell it was just a custom 2-door coupe, it must have been one of those Ford toys Vern: Yes it had to be one of the Ford toys Rich: What did you think of the Andy Hotton product in general? Vern: At the time it didnt compare to ours Rich: Thats what I say Vern: No it wasnt near as good, they wrapped the frame where they cut it with a band but they didnt strap the frame. On the Lehmann-Peterson cars you built an arch into the frame, it wasnt straight when you welded it together it was crowned and then it had a strap welded to the bottom the full length of the frame so when the car was loaded it was straight, when the people got out it would arch back up some, where as Hottons didnt when people got in it went down, that I knew, we had check one (Hotton limousine) out real good Dave: What year was the busiest there, was 1967 the most production? Vern: 67 and 68 both Dave: How many people were working in the whole facility there? Vern: 12 in the body building where we did the stretching, and in the upholstry and mechanical department they had 4 mechanics and about 6 upholster, then they're were some other just hands, you know. Dave: The upholsters did the vinyl top and the inside. Vern: Yea, they set the tops up there Dave: They did all the seam work there Vern: Yea Dave: The carpet that went in the back was that a mouton carpet. Vern: Mohair Dave: Where did that come from Vern: Mouton is what they called it Dave: Silver or Blue I beleive you could get it in Vern: Yea it was sheepskin, that was sheared, they had those dyed somewhere. Rich: We heard a story from relative of Lehmann's that Lehmanns mother would travel the world finding all these fine leathers and carpets... Vern: No she sat in the bar mostly...thats a bunch of crap! Rich: Did she used to come by the shop a lot? Vern: No she wasnt allowed, I think the only one that ever seen her was George. She wasnt allowed around, he was embarrassed of her. No Dave: I notice the carpets in the back you could actually unsnap it and have it cleaned then it that how those were set-up? Vern: Well the basic carpet was in there unerneath everything, but then they were pads just in the floor section that could be be unsnaped and taken out and cleaned, but there was carpet underneath that, the mouton. Dave: Those original armrest for the.. are they called conversation seats Rich: Jumps seats Vern: The rear facing jump seats? Dave: One article said they were conversation seating Vern: Thats what Ford thought about the limousine was the fact that it was a good way to travel because Cadillac you sat facing forward, and they loved the concept because you could sit in the car and talk to the person behind you, you werent facing the other way, you were facing them. Dave: Now did Ford try to build these for funeral home use or who were they trying to target for their customers? Vern: Anybody, they didnt have any direct market like funeral home or anything Rich: But the real target was Cadillac right? Vern: Yea definetly, cause Cadillac had the factory limo and it was wasnt much of a limousine. It was a design still running from the 30's Dave: Yea they kept the same basic style all those years Vern: Kind of like Rolls-Royce, the steering under a Rolls-Royce in 1960 was the same steering they had on a Buick in 1936. Rich: Did anyone approach you to build longer cars in those days? Vern: No, the longer cars, thats something that came in the 70's Rich: So they would deviate from the basic design, it was designed they was you had it the way Ford appoved it Vern: It was good design and they stuck to it, and it wasnt until these ??? started stretching cars and everything changed. Dave: Back to those jump seats I was kind of getting at, the little side armrest that folded up and they were lighted that was all Peterson idea, Vern: Yea Dave: Becasue the early 64 and 65 didnt have those armrest there Rich: Oh you mean the ice storage area? Vern: Yea Rich: I never really considered those armrest, I know what your talking about Vern: They called them armrest though Rich: Oh really Vern: Yea, you could get your arm in there Rich: Right, all the Moloneys had the same design or decanters on one side and ice on the other side Dave: Then there would be a speaker right behind that facing toward the back seats then Vern: Yea the speaker should have been up in one end Dave: A lot of those you could order with a Sony TV, those were a fairly expensive B&W TV fro 12volt back then Vern: They sure were, not only that but the VCR that went in them, back then VCR's were 2 pieces Dave: You mean you could order one with a VCR Vern: Yea, and the VCR came in 2 pieces, you had the tuner in one box and the tape player in another box and they were hooked together by cords, and what we'd do is just use the player section we didnt need the tuner so we had all these tuners, that was the only way you could buy them, we had ton of tuners stacked up, no use for them, they would sell just the player, it wasnt until later on they compacted the whole unit Dave: The shop had damage done from a snow storm at one time Vern: Sure did Rich: That was the Sawyer Ave. one right? Vern: No Rich: No! Vern: Wait a minute, they roof caved in at Sawyer Dave: What all was lost during that? A lot of records or cars got damaged. The popemobile got damaged didnt it Vern: Yea, Dave: Was that in the office section Vern: The whole roof came down, the whole building Dave: So a lot of paper work was lost or damaged, trashed out I would imagine Vern: I dont know about that, might have been convivence. Basically after Ford pulled out, George had all these other ventures going, he was a pioneer in renting motor homes, he had about 6 motor homes that he ould rent out. He lost his rear end on that. Dave: He had a secretary that worke for him, do you recall what her name was. Vern: No, she was a full time secretary though, more of a companion then a secretary Dave: Do you know anything about Lehmann relatives, does he have any... Vern: From what I understood he was the end off the line Dave: He didnt have any nephews or anything like that Vern: Not that I knew of Vern: Getting to the point of Earl Moloney buying the assets of Lehmann-Peterson, Lehmann-Peterson went on the auction block its a matter of public record, the IRS sold everything. Rich: Was this after George died? Vern: No, before George died. Rich: He didnt have the money to make good? Vern: No Rich: I thought he had an endless bucket full Vern: No, he died broke. He died broke, he had bad business investments, he lost everything he had Dave: But Lehmann-Peterson was a profit making company right Vern: Yes Dave: While they were building the limousines that was a good profit for him. Vern: That was about the only thing he had that was making money and it wasnt really makingn a lot of money Rich: Yea I want to get into the Earl Moloney stuff on our next session. Heres a stupid off the record question, Do you think George's death was really an accident? Vern: Well it might have been a suicide, he lost everything Dave: Wow Rich: You think it could have been the other way around like murder? Vern: Nah, I dont think so. Who would benefit, there was nothing left. Dave: But he really did have a boating accident, is that true. Vern: Oh that was early on, in fact the boating accident. Let's see, I don't think it was while he had Lehmann-Peterson It was before that Dave: Oh it was before Lehmann-Peterson Vern: Yea, where he got hit in the head, he ended up dying from a brain tumor Dave: So that happened before Lehmann-Peterson early 60's is what your saying Vern: Yea Dave: Cause he died in what 1972 Vern: Yea Rich: How about next wednesday Vern: The fellow that bought the assetts his name was Bob Bass because I worked for him for a while after Lehmann-Peterson closed, he turned that into a body shop, i'm sure hes dead because he was half dead then! Rich: I've got about 12 questions for our next session you mention he was a big Hawks fan do you know if he knew Authur Wards personality, Vern: I beleive so Rich: Yes good, beleive or not Authur Wards is still around, actually he did many years ago, no one told him though if you know what I'm saying Vern: Kind of like Al Davis Rich: Yea there you go. OK Good Rich: Well we got a good hours worth here and same time next week? Vern: OK Rich: Vern I thank you for the time and well talk to you same time Wednesday Vern: Well I gave you a little more research Rich: Yea this is some good stuff, excellent and most importantly you proved the point that and Dvae owes me lunch, Vern: I'll try to even the score Rich: Yea the Mercury he was convinced that it in big major magazines and I just dont buy it. Vern: Got to be Andy Hotton Rich: Yea thats good Dave: OK I'll take it off the site I guess Rich: I'll look forward to speaking to you next Wednesday Vern: OK Dave: Thanks Vern, Bye Endo fo Talk number 1 on March 21, 2007 **************************