COILS FOR MY OLDER GARRETT

Allan,
 I am looking for an 8' to 12' search coil for a Garrett ADS Deepseeker
 metal detector. I am interested in your 12" coil, but have a few questions. Everyone tells me that a 12" will go deeper than my 5.5", but nobody seems to be able to tell me how much deeper. How deep will it detect in VLF mode? How about TR mode? I realize
there are a lot of factors involved, but can you give me a ballpark figure?
                  CUSTOMER

Dear CUSTOMER;

    Just in the few questions you asked, I could write a whole book. First, let's
determine which detector you have. If it is the early "Garrett Deepseeker ADS" then
you have only two choices of operation. one is VLF (all metal) the other TR
discrimination.
    If your detector is the Garrett Deepseeker "ADS II or ADS III" then your choice of
operating modes is; VLF all metal, "VLF Motion Discrimination", or TR discrimination.
    You want a VLF MOTION DISCRIMINATOR!
    So, if yours is the original ADS, which it sounds like it is,  your only discrimination choice is the TR mode. . . well, I wouldn't put another dime into it. And I certainly wouldn't invest in a bigger coil!
    Why were the TR detectors phased out ?  Because they had a poor depth range
on small coin and jewelry sized objects. The reason they had poor depth was because
they were too sensitive! They were so sensitive that they picked up a signal or feedback from  iron minerals found in most soils.
    The only place in the U.S. where you can find soil that is free from iron minerals is Southwest Florida, here the beaches are pure white because the sand is pure limestone.

    The TR machines were also too sensitive to things like radio interference and electrical (60 cycle) interference. So, when you increase your coil size (which is also an antenna) you increase all these problems!

        If  indeed you do have the original ADS model,  this unit may have been built before another company, "Bounty Hunter" invented VLF "Discrimination."
    VLF detectors go deeper because they are able to hunt without the iron minerals presenting a problem. . . you could say they "reject," the problem caused by the ground mineral iron.    At first however, they didn't know how to make the new VLF detectors reject a second item at the same time.. namely the trash.

    Bounty Hunter was the first to make a breakthrough! They invented "Phase Delay"
(or VLF motion discrimination). This new technology was first marketed in a detector
called, the Bounty Hunter Red Baron. In order for this new detector to work,(ignore both the trash and the iron minerals) the coil had to be moving, and I mean really moving!
You had to whip the coil fast over the ground! The faster you went, the deeper it
detected and the discrimination worked better as well!
    The Red Baron was a killer on arms and shoulders! But it also had another problem,
it wasn't very good in high trash areas. The problem?  The detectors speed of recovery
was so slow. You see,  the new VLF discriminators sort of  'shut down' when they
encounter a trash target which they are suppose to reject.
After this shut down, there is a 'pause' before the circuit resets itself for the next target. With the very fast speed of the coil, and the slow recovery speed,  well, in a trashy area the detector was off more than on! That is great on battery life. . . but poor on treasure recovery!
    The Garrett ADS II and ADS III were the first "SLOW MOTION" VLF DISCRIMINATORS and they were also the first, 'fast recovery' detectors. These machines were the "HOT" detectors for several years and still today they are competitive as far as depth goes.
    But they are too heavy, and the public prefers target ID today.
    If you have an original ADS and not the ADS II or III, sell it for as much as you
can get. . . and if nothing else buy the cheapest Whites, Garrett, Fisher, Tesoro, or
Bounty Hunter (The Bounty Hunter Fast Tracker sells for $139.00) and you will have a
detector that is 1000 times better.
    As concerning depth. . . .
    If you have the ADS II or III the twelve inch coil will give you two to three
inches more depth on coin sized objects over the 7 1/2 inch coil which was standard
with your machine. That is, if the area isn't real trashy. If the area is trashy, and
you have your detector instructed to reject the trash, the 7 1/2 inch coil will go deeper because the smaller coil has less chance of  going over multiple targets. . . a 4 inch coil would be better still!
    If the targets you are looking for are small gold nuggets, the original ADS will
be just fine, because the prospecting mode is always "VLF all metal" and the original ADS has that.
    The small 4 inch coil will pick up the tiny BB sized and smaller nuggets at a
greater depth than the 8 or 12 inch coil. The 12 inch coil will detect the bigger
marble sized nuggets deepest.
    Your first thing to consider is, "Do you want to put in hours searching areas with
TR discrimination, where others have already hunted in VLF Disc.?"
    Even if you do have areas to hunt that have never been detected, do you want to find stuff dating back to the 1920's. . .  or use a VLF disc. and find stuff dating back to the 1820's or older?

    I will be happy to send you whatever coil you want. But, if I were you, and I had
to keep that detector, and, I had to choose one coil, it would be the 8 inch. Now you
have some information and some things to consider.

HELP WITH THE 1212 FISHER

Dear Al;

    I just purchased a Fisher 1220-X at an estate sale and I have been unable to locate an owners manual can you give me tips on working this detector?

Dear CUSTOMER;

Here is the low down on your Fisher.

 The problem metal detectors have suffered from for years is they can be too sensitive!
This is a problem which is caused by interference from both natural and man made
sources. The natural causes can range from sunspot activity which can cause interference
in radio devices as well as approaching electrical storms. Some man made interference
sources include, underground cables, overhead power lines, radio transmissions, cell
phones, etc.
It is very rare that you can gain performance from a high sensitivity setting. Around most
parts of the country, and when using the standard 8 inch search coil (or larger) the
sensitivity should be adjusted to about the ‘3/4' level. . . or no higher then 7 on the dial.
If you choose a setting of 7 and the detector is producing a static sound (either through
the head-phones or speaker) the detector is too sensitive and poor depth or poor ground
penetration will result. If this is the case, turn the sensitivity to a lower number until the
static stops.
The higher range of 8 through 10 can be used only on rare occasions. One example would
be a prospector who has reduced his coil size to the 4 inch nugget coil and is far removed
from civilization.
REMEMBER FOR MAXIMUM DEPTH THE DETECTOR SHOULD BE STABLE
AND FREE FROM STATIC SOUNDS.

This control adjusts the amount of unwanted trash your detector will ignore
 (or in some cases try to ignore.)
If the discrimination level is set to ‘0' the detector will respond to all metals. As the
number is increased more trash will be rejected. At settings 1-2-3 the detector will start
rejecting small iron. For example level ‘1' will start rejecting the small iron items such as
tacks and hairpins. By increasing the setting to 2 the small iron screws and nails will now
also be ignored. At setting 3 the detector will now reject bigger nails and larger nuts and
bolts. At setting 4 the detector will begin to add tinfoil to the list of rejected targets. This
would include small pieces of cooking foil, gum wrappers, tobacco foil.
As you approach 5 ½ on the scale, the detector starts to “cut out” or reject the U.S. nickel
coin. As the nickel is rejected so too is the small white and 10-k yellow gold small rings.
At the ‘6' level, larger gold rings are rejected and it is not until we get to ‘7' that the
aluminum pull-tabs start to be ignored.
You should be careful to never run the trash reject level past 4 unless you really have to!
Sometimes it is a must however! For example at an old picnic ground there may be so
many pull tabs and bottle caps that digging them all would be too much! If you reject pull
tabs, you can still recover all the other coins except nickels!
At the beach, where gold rings are commonly lost, and the digging is easy with the help
of a sand scoop, you should dig any good sounding target with the discrimination level at
‘4' or less.

This control is located on the tip of the handle grip. The position of this switch
determines which of the two operational modes you are using. The left position puts you
into the “Discrimination mode,” for general hunting. The center position is “All metal.”
With the switch in All Metal, the discrimination control is not functional. Both the all-
metal mode and discrimination mode, requires the search coil to be moving for the
detector to work. The third position is the “Battery Check” this is a spring loaded
position so the switch should be momentarily held over and a sound will be emitted from
the speaker. If the sound is loud and sharp the batteries are in good condition. If the
sound is half as loud the batteries are half used. If the sound is weak the batteries should
be replaced. It is best to use alkaline batteries. You should always remove the batteries
for long term storage.
This detector has a regulated power supply which means the detector will have the same
depth the last hour of battery life as it does when the batteries are fresh.

The all metal mode (the switch in the center position) is “True all-metal.” This is the
position to use if you want to make sure the items you are looking for are not missed. A
good example would be scanning a log or used lumber for nails or staples before using a
saw or other cutting tools on it.

Pin-pointing is done by X-ing over the target with the coil slightly raised above the
ground. The strongest point on the search coil is marked by a bulls-eye. Because the
center is the strongest, the field pattern that reaches into the ground is ‘cone’ or ‘V’
shaped. Therefore it is always good to over-lap your sweep as you move forward. The
cone shape reaches into the ground about twelve inches and it gets weaker as it gets
farther from the coil.

 This detector is still the same technology as the currant top of the line detectors.
Therefore the depth is about the same. The detectors depth is about 5 to 6 inches on small
coins such as 1¢ and 10¢ coins. 25¢ coins can be detected at 7 to 8 inches. 50¢ coins can
be reached at 9 inches and a $1.00 coin at up to 12 inches. There is a weaker pattern that
extends into the ground even further and it can be used to detect a large jar of coins or big
relics at 2 to 3 feet!
To pinpoint, as mentioned, you X the target paying close attention where the sound is
triggered. Then with a knife or small digger cut a U-shape in the sod leaving a large area
attached. Then, get under the sod and carefully pry it open like a trap door.
You should carry a rag or plastic bowl to put the dirt into then when the item is recovered
the dirt can all be returned to the hole. Now, close the flap and step down on it a couple
of times. By using this method the sod will continue to grow.

Today’s more powerful detectors sometimes make sounds on targets that should be
rejected. It is our job to interpret the good sounds from the bad sounds. Badly rusted
items create a crackle or spitting broken sound. Good targets give a solid clean un-broken
sound in all directions. When you get a solid sound in one direction and not the other,
this can be badly rusted metal which has stained the surrounding ground, or it can be a
good target next to a bad one. Try sweeping the object from different angles. If you
cannot find an approach that results in a good solid sound, it is most likely junk. It is
however a good idea to dig some of these targets at first to learn your detector and gain
trust in what it is telling you.

Targets are found at greater depths because of a natural energy that is generated as the
metal reacts to the acid in the soil and both moisture and oxygen. This is an electro-
magnetic reaction which creates what we in the hobby call the “hallo-effect” This hallo is
much stronger when the soil is moist. Many treasure hunters believe the reason they get
better depth after a soaking rain is because the radio waves from the search coil are better
conducted by the wet ground. If this were true we could find small, deep, fleshly buried
targets better in wet ground. .  but we can’t. It is really the corrosive action on the older
target or hallo that is enhanced.
Soil moisture, targets that have been in the ground a long time, and a stable (not too
sensitive) detector is the secret to good depth.

The detector can be broke down for storage but be careful not to lose the small
compression fitting in the locking nut where the stems are adjusted.
GOOD HUNTING!

If you have any problems give me a call anytime.    Al’
Work 616-685-1776

Dear Al;
 I found your name and info an the net and wish I lived  closer so I could visit your shop.  I live about a days  drive West of you, so I hope you can answer this via  email.  I started detecting in 1973.  My first real  machine was a Garrett Money Hunter TR.  I moved into the  Groundhog VLF TR in about 1976.  Over the years, I have  had a variety of detectors, but still love the "feel" of  the Groundhog.  I still have a Groundhog Coin Hunter  VLF/TR as well as the Groundhog ADS Master Hunter.  My  nephews are getting to the age that they need a good  hobby, so I thought I would introduce them to the  Groundhogs. My problem is that I can't remember the  difference between the deepseeker 5.5 coils, the coplanar  coils, the coaxial coils and the wide scan coils.  Could  you tell me which coils are interchangeable with the  Groundhogs?  Thanks.  If I am ever in the area, you can
 bet I will stop in!
 

Hi Randy;   The Groundhog was a 15 kHz detector and the Deepseeker model was 5.5Khz.
You don't want to get the wrong coil on the wrong machine!   The Coplaner coils were the best all purpose coil. They pinpointed well, discriminated well and had the best depth.

    The coaxial coils had stacked windings and resulted in a thicker heavier coil but they picked up less electrical interference which were great for hunting down town or under power lines.

    The wide scan coil was what many companies like Minelab call a "Double D" coil. The windings in this coil look like a backwards 'D' and a regular 'D' with the straight lines on the 'Ds' going down the center. These coils usually don't go as deep as the coplaner coil which sends down a V pattern but they scan the 4 to 6 inch range quicker because
there is no need to overlap with each sweep.   The Wide scan coil penetrates the ground with a wide based 'U' shape. The widescan coil is not as good at discriminating and more of a challenge to pinpoint with than the coplaner.

    You see, the coplaner coil has a V shaped cone shape reaching into the ground because the center of the coil is the hot spot. This also aids in the pinpoint process.

    The Wide Scan "double D" coil is hot from the toe of the coil to the heal of the coil. This makes pinpointing more of a challenge.

    Because the Wide Scan coil is a poor discriminator, that seems to make it pick up small gold nuggets better, (Also bottle caps) Because of  its ability to find small gold, it's the type coil used on most gold machines. That is what those egg shaped coils are which the companies call elliptical coils They are a stretched out Double D.

 If you like the Groundhog, than you may like the Garrett Scorpion Gold Stinger. This detector has the Groundhog circuit but it is also the newer motion, ground reject, discrimination. In other words it will detect as deep as your Groundhog does in your much deeper all metal or V.L.F. mode but it will also discriminate at this greater depth. If you
were to run your Ground Hog in the TR Disc. mode, you might as well buy the cheapest Bounty Hunter VLF motion discriminator for about $129.00 and go a lot deeper.

Make certain that any coil that you put on that Ground Hog says either "Ground Hog" or 15Khz on it. If it just says Garrett, or if it says "Deepseeker" or you are not sure . . . . DON'T USE IT! The wrong frequency will cause an overload in the transmitter circuits and in a short amount of time you could smell smoke! That smell is your detector saying, "good-bye"   Hope this helps,
Al Holden   Pro/Stock Detectors

ANSWER,  AS I REMEMBER IT:

DEAR CUSTOMER;
I had to smile when I saw the frequency taken from your Teknetics owners manual.
    Teknetics detectors were designed by a couple of former Whites engineers. The chief engineer was a man named George Paine. These guys were the best detector engineers in the industry. After much work they came up with, or invented, a detector design that would Identify targets. I was told they  then presented their plan to  their boss, Kenneth White Senior. Of course he was impressed but Whites was so far ahead of the competition he decided it would be smart, from a business standpoint, to bring this new detector out when he needed it. So the design was put on the shelf for future production. This angered the engineers and they quit.

    They went across town and rented or purchased a warehouse and with some investors
money started the Teknetics company.

     These guys were great engineers but poor business men. The company went great guns at first and started making money right away. They also started spending money big time! Their first major purchase being the Bounty Hunter company. They felt that the Bounty Hunter detectors were junk but Bounty Hunter held a contract to sell detectors through Montgomery Wards stores and that was what they were after.

    They scrapped all the Bounty Hunter models and started building a new line from the bottom up, starting with their new and popular Big Bud. In the mean time, the Wards stores had already made the decision to stop selling metal detectors so Teknetics bought a almost worthless company! That was the first of many bad business decisions.

    If Kenneth White had kept these men I believe we would have detectors far better than we see today.

    The reason I have to smile is this. Only an engineer would list his detector frequency at 6.592! Anyone else would call this 6.6 khz which is really what it is as far as the public is concerned. More than likely if your machine was checked on my frequency counter it would actually read out at anywhere from 6.4 to 6.7 and this is ok! The Bounty Hunter coil I am sending you is 6.6 which is in all honesty what your machine is too. You should have no problem with this coil working fine on your detector. Buy the way this proves the others wrong . . . the Bounty Hunter frequency has not changed.

    As for your brother's request for the Fisher 1265 charger, Fisher only sells this as a complete package with the Batteries included and it sells for $54.00 Even if it was less than $20.00 I don't think that I would buy it. Nicad rechargeable batteries are 1.2 volts where
alkaline batteries are 1.5 volts. When you multiply this power shortage by 8 batteries you are starting with a power loss even when the batteries are fully charged. This will result in sluggish performance. Unless your brother is wasting too much time when he is pinpointing! When pinpointing, you have full audio, pinpointing is a battery draining function, and especially if he is not using battery saving headphones, this detector should give him great battery life.
    In all the years that I have sold first the 1260-X, the 1265-X and the 1266-X, I have never sold the recharge system.  I don't think it is really needed or a good idea. If your brother is one of these retired hunters who goes out 10 hours per day and isn't concerned about depth then he may want this system.